Forum Announcement - Please Read

[Kat Kanning]

Russell and I set up this forum as a place to plan activism and get out info about NH activities to freestaters.  I don't feel any obligation to provide a platforum for endless debate, especially concerning violent revolution.  Violence against the government/violent revolution is antithetical to what we're (Russell and I are) trying to accomplish.    Just as planning more government programs/higher taxes wouldn't be appropriate here, since it goes completely contrary to what we're trying to do, so violence against the government goes against what we're trying to do and discussions of it here are not appropriate.  We tolerate (barely) the political discussion because it doesn't directly interfere with what we're doing.  So if you want to discuss violent revolution, Unintended Consequences, shooting cops or other government officials, "Is it time to shoot the bastards yet?"  we're asking you to take your discussion elsewhere.

[TackleTheWorld]

I heard there's a kickin' discussion of violent revolution over at http://tomalciere.com/

[error]

Personally I think violent revolution is only going to get you another government, with more of the same. Sure, it might be smaller, and a little more free, but it will still be based on violence, and still just as morally reprehensible, as the one it replaces.

But not everyone understands this yet. That's why I think it's important to examine the issue, as distasteful as it might be. Unfortunately, a couple of people have taken the issue to what is probably too extreme in order to make their points.

And, just talking about it invites unwanted attention from officious bureaucrats who have no problem with using violence against ordinary people, because they have pieces of magic metal and paper which they believe give them the moral authority to use violence.

So it's a tough issue. It's of course your forum, and you can prohibit whatever you want. But I'd like to be able to, at least, help someone realize the virtues of the nonviolent revolution.

[Rosie the Riveter]

You are so right and I am respectfully sorry -- I am sometimes lured into the trap of arguing with the "pro-violence against the government" posters. I always find the statements so contradictory that I feel compelled to point out that contradiction... I am hence silenced and will no longer preach non-violence, and in turn feeding their fire, to the members with aggressive tendencies on this board. I am wasting my breath and your forum space.  I will just be happy with my own understanding as I continue to work to learn to never feed the trolls.

[KBCraig]

Error said what I would say, only he said it with more eloquence.

I am guilty of joining the debate, but only because I want those who stumble onto this forum to know that "Shoot 'em all on sight!" is not the norm for this community.

Kevin

[cyberdoo78]

I'm not a violent individual. I own no guns. I have a small collection of swords but they are no where near the quality needed to be actively used. I believe that killing people is wrong unless you are defending yourself. I believe threatening people with violence is wrong, however you need to tell people that you have the right to defend yourself and warn them before they attack you, how can you do that without it sounding like a threat?

I disagree with the nonviolent revolution because its inherently flawed logic of, "if we do no harm, others will do no harm." But that is my opinion.

It is your property, you control it, you make the rules. To silence those who's opinion you disagree with to me is personally repugnant, especially when, it would seem to me that this board was designed to be a base of operations for all those who live in New Hampshire(or want to live in New Hampshire) for the purposes of being freer, regardless of ideology.

Had I known when I joined a few months ago that you believed in censorship, I perhaps would have decided instead not to join. Had I known that if I didn't think the way you think that I should be quiet, perhaps I wouldn't have met all these great people, even the ones that I disagree with.

We talk about liberty, we talk about freedom, and we talk about equality. It would appear that in your domain that liberty, freedom, and equality do not exist for those who disagree with you. Its sad really, to trade one type of censorship for another.

I don't like hearing people that talk about killing people. I don't like hearing people threatening other people with violence. I generally ignore these people who spout this ideology because I don't believe it helps anyone's cause. However I do on occasion speak up when I hear someone attacking another who is basically of good character, and come to their defense.

I try to attack the idea, not the person, but I am only human, run by the same logic and emotions as any other person and some times I fail. If I offend, I ask that you ask for an apology.

Kat, I don't know you. I would like to know you better. I support your cause. I support you. I don't mean to insult you, or cause any harm towards you. I will not, however, apologize for my beliefs, like some others may.

If I continue to post here, I will do so under your rules. I will not speak another word of violence toward anyone.

[Russell Kanning]

... it would seem to me that this board was designed to be a base of operations for all those who live in New Hampshire(or want to live in New Hampshire) for the purposes of being freer, regardless of ideology.

Had I known when I joined a few months ago that you believed in censorship, I perhaps would have decided instead not to join. ... It would appear that in your domain that liberty, freedom, and equality do not exist for those who disagree with you. Its sad really, to trade one type of censorship for another.

We did not invent this forum to try to include everyone who wants to be more free in NH. We really didn't put up this site for those that want to criticize and even oppose our efforts.
We do believe in some forms of censorship ... I guess. We can't do everything.
I think there is, and will be even more in the future, room for multiple communities inside the NH freedom movement. This forum is mostly to plan and promote the Nonviolent Revolution here in The Shire. Thanks for respecting our space. I understand that we cannot accommodate every ideology and there will be many other websites to choose from soon.

[lastlady]

General Discussion
Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.


Should this be changed? It doesn't seem to be true anymore.

[KBCraig]

I think there is, and will be even more in the future, room for multiple communities inside the NH freedom movement.

That is one of the goals, isn't it? 

The Underground has done a great job as the clearinghouse where multiple approaches can be discussed, but with some hard limits that aren't tolerated (racism and initiating violence come to mind).

Freedom activists of many different stripes post here, knowing they can find support. No matter what other venues arise for specific methods and theories, I hope this forum is always seen as the first place to come find others who support your particular brand of activism.

Kevin

[d_goddard]

 

[Tom Sawyer]

As an example of the rules of conduct on a forum, here is what Claire Wolfe says...

The Claire Files rules for their forum.
http://tcftalk.com/clairefiles/index.php?topic=1815.msg152652#msg152652

Some folks think that they have anonymity... or that their words don't affect other's safety on the forum.

It is easy to be bold when it is not your friends and loved ones that are made vulnerable. Many of us here actually know each other and spend time taking care of each other. We have seen each other in action and have developed trust and confidence.

Anyone that possesses sense and decency would come into the group and take the time to understand the goals and tone of the group before running around half-cocked.

As an example of behavior harming others...
Even though folks here think the drug war is a terrible injustice, it would be incredibly foolish for us to allow someone to deal drugs via the forum.

Another reason to protect the tone of the forum...
Someone considering uprooting their family and moving to the Shire, could easily be driven off by the threat of losing everything.
I've seen folks leave because of this kind of thing.

[Tom Sawyer]

 

Holy crap, I see I got the 1000 karma points Dreepa promised me.

Now I'm embarrassed, it has already bothered me that I had some more than folks that spent time in jail for the cause.
Using Photoshop doesn't quite match that.

[Lloyd Danforth]

I understand Karma points cannot be recinded.  I guess you owe some jail time

[d_goddard]

Violence ... is antithetical to what we're trying to accomplish.

It's not a matter of mercy
It's not a matter of laws
Plenty of people will kill you
For some fanatical cause
...
We don't want to be victims
On that we all agree
So we lock up the killer instinct
And throw away the key

Rush, Lock and Key

[Tom Sawyer]

I understand Karma points cannot be recinded.  I guess you owe some jail time

OK... I guess I have no choice.