Big, bad news! Liberty Dollar offices raided.

[Puke]

you could come close ... if you had a truck backed up to the right door and electronic payment already made

Yeah, I should have added the word "business". This is why I just like the bullion. You can trade it amongst friends and other people that know what it is. At some point it could become more common.

[J’raxis 270145]

how can anything a private person does ... be unconstitutional?

Easy.

The Constitution reserves certain powers to the federal government. In turn, it's only supposed to prohibit the states from engaging in certain activities and possessing certain powers, but with the fourteenth amendment redefining people as being directly subject to the federal government's power ("... citizens of the United States ..."), interpretations like the above actually become plausible.

Remember this is the same government that puts growing your own food under "interstate commerce."

[Russell Kanning]

Remember this is the same government that puts growing your own food under "interstate commerce."

I knew there was a reason we buried the constitution.

[J’raxis 270145]

4) call it a "medallion", "barter token", or make up a completely new name, maybe derived from classical language or even science fiction or revolutionary political lingo.

...

6) get away from Troy ounce (who has a scale for that?), maybe go to grams, like the old "Volksmoney" (peoples' money) concept.

I always liked Vernor Vinge's "gAu" unit from The Peace War and "The Ungoverned." It's never made clear in the stories, but I suppose you could pronounce it as an acronym or read it out as "grams of gold."

[mvpel]

Sunshine Mint does custom dies - cost ranges from $450 to $1,350 per side depending on the design details.  An FSP one-ounce silver round would be pretty sweet.

[KBCraig]

Maybe send you ideas to JP.  He'd put them to good use, I'm sure.

How katty. 

[Dave Ridley]

Second Ridley Report on the Liberty Dollar situation

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-oQoWH2Wo3c

[Ron Helwig]

Just listened in on the conference call with Bernard - writing up the notes.

[Ron Helwig]

My notes from the hour and a half conference call with RCOs
----------------------------------------------------------

Bernard says there is a great front page article from the Washington Post. (I couldn't see it - they don't seem to want visitors on their website).

He thinks that his getting arrested would be a good thing. He wants to make the case big and explode on the national news.

Bernard wants to have as many people join in on the class action lawsuit as possible. Only those who are holding certificates, have ELD, or have an outstanding order are eligible. He reminded everyone that we can sell certificates to enlarge the class, but only if we state to the purchaser that they aren't currently redeemable.

Mike Badnarik is supposedly going to broadcast the trial.

They are planning on moving the website hosting offshore.

It was noted that the traffic at Ron Paul's website has jumped 22% in the last two days.

The same judge that was overseeing the civil trial (against the US Mint's misleading statements) is the one that signed the search warrant. The civil trial will likely be dropped as the criminal case will be a better determinor of the status. Criminal > Civil. This seems to be a good thing since now the burden of proof is on the government (as a criminal case) instead of on Liberty Services (as a civil case).

Bernard has no idea of a timeframe for upcoming events, but he believes that they may get their computers back soon.

RCOs are not obligated to redeem certificates for silver under the current circumstances.

On Friday some people did get their shipments of Ron Paul Copper Liberties! Auctions on EBay are supposedly at $15 per copper.

Donations can be sent to the office address. They will be forwarded to the new PO Box. Donations need to be made out to Bernard von NotHaus, due to the bank situation.

As well as broadening the class for the upcoming lawsuit, someone suggested that we push for Ron Paul to open a Congressional investigation into the whole thing.


All in all, Bernard seemed feisty and happy. He wants the fight, and he is very confident of a win.

[J’raxis 270145]

Bernard wants to have as many people join in on the class action lawsuit as possible.

I'm in. I assume joining just means filling out that form that was linked from the original email?

They are planning on moving the website hosting offshore.

A very good idea.

It was noted that the traffic at Ron Paul's website has jumped 22% in the last two days.

Looks like it may have backfired on them, then.

The same judge that was overseeing the civil trial (against the US Mint's misleading statements) is the one that signed the search warrant. The civil trial will likely be dropped as the criminal case will be a better determinor of the status. Criminal > Civil. This seems to be a good thing since now the burden of proof is on the government (as a criminal case) instead of on Liberty Services (as a civil case).

And, as I understand it, criminal forfeiture is actually subject to due process unlike civil forfeiture.

As well as broadening the class for the upcoming lawsuit, someone suggested that we push for Ron Paul to open a Congressional investigation into the whole thing.

This is a good idea.

[Russell Kanning]

He thinks that his getting arrested would be a good thing. He wants to make the case big and explode on the national news.

we can help him attain his goal ... if he needs ideas

[error]

Ron Paul Silver Liberty pieces are ending between $300 and $350 on eBay. I kind of feel bad for the guy who set a Buy It Now for $199.

Ron Paul Copper Liberty pieces haven't ended yet but the highest one I saw is at $36.50.

[picaro]

A porcupine silver round would be sweet.

However...

Silver functions as a store of wealth, sure.  Silver as a currency during heavy inflation... seems less likely, except for larger, infrequent purchases.   This is especially true for people who discover hard currencies too late.

With the collapse of the dollar, it will become increasingly difficult to circulate silver.   A zero-balanced service credit (inflation proof) could fill the gaps for smaller more frequent purchases.

[Rochelle]

... given how difficult it is for the average operator to break a five without a calculator ...

Heh. I went through a drive-through last night. The total was $10.84, and I handed him a twenty. He said they were out of $1 bills, and asked if I had the change. I didn't, but I handed him a one so that he could give me $10.16 change. For a full 45 seconds I watched through the window as his lips and fingers moved, until he finally reached over and used a calculator.

And of course, his register was showing $9.16 change due before I handed him the one, but he just couldn't make the leap.

In his defense, you try dealing with customer after customer, a long list of tasks you have to do stuck in your head and by the time half your shift is over, you aren't entirely sure that 1+1=2 anymore, not to mention math that involves actual thought.
Additionally, if you DO make a mistake, you have an angry customer that will jump down your throught. Having a calculator handy and actually using it, is a good way to make sure they won't have much ground to stand on.

[jaqeboy]

A porcupine silver round would be sweet.

However...

...Silver as a currency during heavy inflation... seems less likely, except for large, infrequent purchases.

Consider this - I weighed a currently-minted nickel in at 5 gm and a 1 ozTroy LD in at 32 gm, so...

(note: I didn't go do a computation based on the densities) a token about the size of a nickel made of silver might be about 6 gm (computations to follow), and so using $16/ozTroy Au for ease of calculation, this little nickel-sized token would be worth about USD$ 3, or about the price of a beer...

So, maybe this guy could be on the obverse of a nickel-sized silver: